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Post by DaveCummings on Oct 4, 2008 13:15:22 GMT -5
I cannot speak for you all but I honestly don't care for (and never, ever have) Joe's being delayed for whatever reason. The man is in good health, good spirits, he's happy as hell, he has his family and thats pretty much it. Its not always about his art lol. If something happens to Joe, his art, his potential delays are done. I would rather, and always will rather care for him personally, so that by him doing well, we AT LEAST have a chance to complain. Joe and Nathen keep up the EXCELLENT work and do whatever the hell you guys wish to do lol. This is Joe's/Nathen's world, and we are all simply a part of it artistically speaking anyway. I'm 100 % with musashinden on this. I hate to bring this up but their was alot of so called fans of Michael Turner that came down on him when his book was late. The guy had cancer for god sake and it's like they really didn't care about his health. I figured after Turner's passing people would lighten up, treat these creators with a little more respect and understand that they are human and sh!t happens and after comics they do have a life. The only thing I agree with gugesbri is that the book shouldn't have been advertised if it wasen't done. It's really Marvel's fault anyway you look at it. Things get delayed all the time but Marvel should have known that a book like this which was only 5 issues long shouldn't have been advertise till Joe was midway on issue 5. When there's no explanation all the finger pointing goes to the artist and that's exactly what's going on here. The same thing happen to Brian Hinch on the last issue of ultimates. Everyone thought it was his fault when it was his colorist and his inker that got held up but everyone was ready to point the finger at him. Marvel needs to step up and prevent these things from happening. I think that the problem with Joe and Bryan Hitch is when they first started soliciting any of the Ultimates series, the pace they were going at the time made it look like lateness would not be an issue. But, life gets in the way. And by the time it gets in the way, the first couple of issues were already done were getting released and it becomes unavoidable. I mean, with Millar and Hitch's current FF run, though Bryan is several issues ahead, the last couple of issues were delayed a couple of weeks, because the inker had an injury and Bryan had to go back and ink those himself until he got back on his feet. Granted, it's not going to affect the rest of the run really, considering that Bryan was done with issue 12 of their 16 issue run by the time the 1st or 2nd issue comes out. But, also with Ultimates 3, I don't think they could of really waited until he was completely done with the series before they solicited, it's part of a shared universe and there are events that were already planned to happen in which they had to release the books, to avoid pushing back the plans of the other books. I mean, the conclusion to Ultimates 3 happened in September, with it leading in to Ultimatum in October. It's very difficult for them to push everything else off for that book considering how far in advance these things are planned. And the delays in Ultimates 3 didn't affect the other books, so it's wasn't too much of an issue. In hindsight, what they should of done is made the book bi-monthly, had it come out every other month, if they did that, there would of been no delays at all or a very slight one. But, like I mentioned to Gustavo, comics are a different animal than publishing in newspapers and magazines, in those what you do is a small part of a much larger thing and if you are late, it throws a huge cog in it. Comics are different and for the most part, if it's late if only affects that one book. There have been exceptions, like Civil War's delays affecting all the other books, because of how heavily the other books were tied, but it's usually more of a self contained type of thing. |
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Post by Sketchlogic on Oct 4, 2008 18:13:18 GMT -5
Agreed Dave, and in addition, that even according to "Artists on Comic Art" Hitch has said he always struggled in the past with being late, so it seems to me more of a personal issue, and I've never known (or been aware) of that being a problem with Joe other than outside circumstances. I also assumed that solicitation was more of the 'corporate' decision and not really the artist, though Joe did solicit BC at some time too early (I believe) but great point indeed and thanks for clearing some things up. I don't have it all together sometimes lol.
P.S - Also strange lol, I'm so sucked into "Next Wave" right now that I don't know what to do with myself, this is hands down one of the greatest comics ever made lol!
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Post by DaveCummings on Oct 4, 2008 18:40:29 GMT -5
Agreed Dave, and in addition, that even according to "Artists on Comic Art" Hitch has said he always struggled in the past with being late, so it seems to me more of a personal issue, and I've never known (or been aware) of that being a problem with Joe other than outside circumstances. I also assumed that solicitation was more of the 'corporate' decision and not really the artist, though Joe did solicit BC at some time too early (I believe) but great point indeed and thanks for clearing some things up. I don't have it all together sometimes lol. P.S - Also strange lol, I'm so sucked into "Next Wave" right now that I don't know what to do with myself, this is hands down one of the greatest comics ever made lol! Well, also, Bryan had said that towards the end of Ultimates, he became incredibly burnt out on those characters that it messed with his speed. That, and Mark is well known for slowing down artists, even artists known for their incredible speed like John Romita jr. get slowed down because of Mark having scenes with a ton of stuff going on and quite literally, almost every script will have a page or a panel that is described "draw the best page you have ever drawn in your life". I mean, Steve McNiven is really good about keeping a schedule and was ahead of schedule on Civil War, until issue 3 or 4 when it came to having pages with 30-40 Marvel characters beating the hell out of each other, after that, he started to run behind on that book. Not to mention scripts running behind, due to Mark's bout with Chrohn's disease. They were originally thinking about using fill-ins, but realized that though that may benefit from the single issue point of view, it was detrimental in terms of long term collected edition sales, saying that people picking up the hardcover or tpb years from now wont even know or care that it was late back then. I mean, people now don't even remember or care that Watchmen had lateness issues back in '86 It does make me wonder if how Loeb writes scripts slowed things down at all. I mean writers like Ellis or Bendis will write several issues ahead, Bendis jokes, saying that if he died now, he'd still have Ultimate Spider-Man issues coming out for over a year. Loeb said in a podcast that he doesn't write the next issue until that artist is almost done with the issue he's working on. And knowing that, it makes me wonder if with working like that, if his work on Heroes might have ran him behind a bit as well, causing Joe to run behind. I mean, there's no way of knowing. Certain creators are a little more accessable and let people know what's going on, but for the most part, people are in the dark and don't know exactly what's going on. |
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Post by Sketchlogic on Oct 5, 2008 0:46:31 GMT -5
Excellent point Dave and agreed  . |
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Post by eworks on Oct 5, 2008 4:32:21 GMT -5
It's all Marvel's fault, period.
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Post by gugesbri on Oct 5, 2008 14:32:38 GMT -5
It's all Marvel's fault, period. Exactly! a) Don't solicit a book until it is completely done. b) Get the creative team to commit 100% to the project, and, don't, DON'T pay for the job until it is completely done. C) Make creators honor their contractual agreement. Gustavo Pabon |
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Post by tomtravers on Dec 8, 2008 18:52:32 GMT -5
We should do like the Frech/Europeans do and have artists and writers team on graphic albums and work on them for however long it takes and release them only when they are done and at the highest quality. Treat the work like a novel, give it more respect and maintain high quality standards instead of rushing things to satisfy monthly demand. I would rather wait years for a solid, polished work of art than get a sloppy rag on a monthly basis (I am not saying Ultimates 3 was a sloppy rag!). I'll take quality over quantity any day. I think we have some of the most incredibly talented artists in the world working in or around the American comic book industry and we do them and the fans a disservice by putting their work under often unrealistic deadline constraints. I give tons of credit to the artists who are capable of pumping out high quality work on a monthly basis, they deserve much respect, but if an artist is slow they should not be punished with angry fan reaction and the like. Publishers need to understand the limitations of the artists they hire and develop projects/assignments for them accordingly.
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Post by LabSOUND on Dec 8, 2008 19:41:02 GMT -5
We should do like the Frech/Europeans do and have artists and writers team on graphic albums and work on them for however long it takes and release them only when they are done and at the highest quality. Treat the work like a novel, give it more respect and maintain high quality standards instead of rushing things to satisfy monthly demand. I would rather wait years for a solid, polished work of art than get a sloppy rag on a monthly basis (I am not saying Ultimates 3 was a sloppy rag!). I'll take quality over quantity any day. I think we have some of the most incredibly talented artists in the world working in or around the American comic book industry and we do them and the fans a disservice by putting their work under often unrealistic deadline constraints. I give tons of credit to the artists who are capable of pumping out high quality work on a monthly basis, they deserve much respect, but if an artist is slow they should not be punished with angry fan reaction and the like. Publishers need to understand the limitations of the artists they hire and develop projects/assignments for them accordingly. It would be cool if Joe was actually doing that. He's probably drawing Battles Chasers #19 or something, then he decides to release all of them in one book in a year or so. Imagine getting 10 brand new issues of BC all in one day  . My head would just explode from excitement ;D |
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. My head would just explode from excitement ;D